偉士霸LX/S車系(型式ZAPM68100..ZAPM68200)的噴射系統終於弄明白了.....日昨再赴金消商看車....特地再稍微"考察"了它的"引擎室"(馬桶拿起來就行..)...
順便也研究一下下管來管去的線路...
驚喜的是...看見Magneti Marelli 商標字樣和P桃同時出現在ECU電腦上...所以連帶猜測噴射系統包括噴頭也應該是同家系統.....不過不能確定是什麼規格的噴頭....(Marelli有相當優的Pico噴頭)....
偉士霸採用自家人的系統......不是日系或德系...
Magneti Marelli .............
Magneti Marelli Holding S.p.A.公司產品除牛呀馬像法拉利之類的性能跑車愛用之外...一大粒重機車界如Ducati(沿伸到MotoGP)也愛用.......好像他們跟Bosch共同分刮了最大的噴射市場?....所以在噴射界算是大賣家....
只不過連漫條斯理的Vespa今回也用上Magneti Marelli件......慢速的Magneti Marelli MIU?.....
*20121024補充:這個MIU(Mechanical Integrated Unit)是為摩托車設計的電控組件..似乎還混合了機械構造?...特色就是整組構件就裝在電子節氣門旁邊.....不像一般日系機車設計是分開遠遠的...
原本化油器位置上有個散熱片裝置的就是ECU吧?(從它的插腳來推測..但又跟日系18腳或26腳不同..)....位置居中緊連閥體...所以可以清楚看見噴頭....因為行李箱底部的凸出部也比化油款車種要更突出.........大概是鐵殼車受限維修孔不太大的莫可奈何的配置吧?...因此安裝位置選擇不多(車頭也是鐵殼維修孔不大..所以塞不進去)....也因為這個因素才用金屬制外殼加散熱片?........
下面網站提供工作手冊之圖以供另件選購時參考...相當優..
http://www.vespaspares.co.uk/spares/epc2.asp?ModelID=11867&pageID=46
下面引用網路上GTS更詳細的圖片...可說和LX/S是差不多相同系列...
QUASAR(Quarter Liter Smooth Augmented Range)........
http://www.gtsownersclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2188&start=10
這個鋁合金包著ECU還直接跟閥體Throttle body結合為一體....
下面是拆解圖...可以看到接頭不同於日系....不過好像也是26腳(pin)...
下面是我還沒拍照時...戰時用的網路圖片...
http://www.motorinoco.jp/vespa/guide/lx125ie/lx125ie_25.html
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現時上路新車不多..但有油門方面小狀況報告了...
在不只一個滑行放鬆油小小"自動供油"現象(我想是怠速自己提速吧?)案例發生之此時....在下不得不再提LX/S的噴射系統....
(老大用化油器推測...提醒了在下)..
先聲明..這個問題應該要等太古研究後才知道真象為準......而根據我的經驗...像這種非個案但又非通案的毛病....通常剛開始的答覆多半不會令人滿意?!.............
所以....我們這些板凳裁判只是在旁幫忙吆喝而已...請別當真...哈哈...
正如本篇開始我說的...新車絕不會有積碳..(好一個家在....廠方不會推卸這個責任..餵你清潔劑)....
通常怠速有問題毛頭會指向閥體...在下之前有猜過.....尤其是怠速控制閥...
新車我們必須先排除裝配失誤及卡線等因素..
再來就電腦程序..那就大條了...所以這裡暫不研究...
噴引都有一個怠速控制裝置...是由電腦控制怠速高低...四輪車的話在冷車或開冷氣時會自動提速(會自己計算補油量).....
(我順便要提醒大家..噴偉不像化偉..電噴是不可以調怠速的..)........
LX/S系統還沒進步到用Fly by wire.....但也沒有冷氣好控制咧......唉~(什麼跟什麼)....
所以這種電腦怠速控制就沒那麼複雜吧.......
請看看咱們家LX/S的怠速長什麼樣子開始吧...大家做個腦力激盪先......
油門(節氣門)一關...正常下電腦之計算油量應該會以怠速來供應........如果一些因素(程式?)誤判...偷偷多打開一"點點"節氣門...並且又多供一些些油噴出...那就會出現所謂"自動加油"的狀況...
*借一下摩登偉世網的圖...詳文請參考該網說明...
http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic62166
它的怠速旁通道.....狠直...
特殊的圓圈圈線路....想必是用來感應油門位置的....
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本帖最後由 ベスパ 於 2011-6-23 11:08 AM 編輯
沒玩過噴射車.....抖膽請教?
那個箭頭旁內6角.....
如果從化油器的角度看....
會不會是調怠速的呢? ...
love4tvespa 發表於 2011-6-22 11:26 PM
老大明察秋毫...果然要得..
不過在下也才接觸噴偉...對MIU細部也不確定..它的構造也跟日系完全不同.....本篇初衷還是希望拋磚引玉...由專業人事來指點...
老大既然提了...在下如坐針氈...無論如何也要趕著鴨子上架...做個腦力激盪...不能算回答...還請老大海涵...哈..
我也希望那個小螺螺是調怠速的....簡單咩?.....
套句老大的話(?..)..."可以試別人的...但不要試自己的"....嘿嘿嘿...
只是我小小腦袋從噴射系都是電腦城市去控制電磁這個方向去考慮的話...它只是出廠前校正定位用的(節氣的蝶閥關緊位置)....說不定還要接電腦一面看線一面調這棵小囉囉?....
所以怠速控制就統統委託電腦用旁通流量去橋噴油量了(所以我想旁通流量是固定的..這就是不能調怠速的原因..)....也就是說..如果任意轉動...它也不會像化油器中文氏管效應那樣...(好像噴射系的管道也沒有文氏管的喇叭形?)...
ps
轉那個小囉囉只會讓緊閉的蝶閥開出一道縫隙...旁通進氣量可能會被打亂...而程式只算旁通管的流量.....
(蝶閥一動就通ECU裡面那個圓圈圈線路...所以電磁應該沒那麼容易用螺絲調整?..)...
日系噴噴的話我知道有人用硬橋的將電磁閥安裝位置偏置來改變空燃比(將汽油弄濃一些些...)....但不會用定位stopper螺絲去調怠速....因為程式寫好了...怠速一切就靠那個旁通給氣...怕調節螺絲不成反而會亂程式...
結論....
我想辦法再連絡我老師...也請線上達人來解圍...哈..
半夜想女人...不知所云..請老大見亮...
/
寫到這裡突然想到....如果從物理觀點出花的話...."會自動吹油門"有沒有可能是那個蝴蝶閥被女神"卡卡"沒關緊?...又不適應台灣高溫高濕的空氣才造成的?(什麼都要怪天氣囉~...美歐都空氣乾爽?..希望太股不會搬這個理由塘塞?...)..........
才收油門時偶而漏氣?....進氣一多..電腦也傻傻分不清也順便餵一些油?...
我在胡扯蛋....哈...
//
想完女人....我又回來...才一修改上文..老大就提問了...
修改部份應該有解釋老大這次的"想法"..麻煩大家回去看一下下..不好藝術啦..
也就是偷轉一點節氣閥會怎樣?...
(節氣閥俗稱油門....也就是轉蝶閥.....)
答案是會破壞怠速的旁通進氣量.......而旁通管的進氣量是精密計算過的....
偷偷轉動油門...會提高轉速...但不會是怠速控制範圍....因為怠速的參數有寫"1700 to 1800rpm".....應該是用參數去設定....就算打開蝶閥一點點...都不在這個範圍.....因為電腦會認定為你是在吹油門了...這時的噴射條件是用另一個程式的參數去寫....
再一次...所以在下偷偷不確實的診斷"怠速時自動提速"這種另類行為的Trouble shooting...
不是一大粒人的浪漫裝配品質...而是一大粒人的"熱情"+"熱血"...俸送女神"卡卡"...哈哈...........
會不會是"蝴蝶"被卡住了...才偷偷開一條縫?.............
救命喂~~..造次之處...老大饒命...
//
本帖最後由 ベスパ 於 2011-6-23 12:03 PM 編輯
回復 ベスパ
問題又來了......
如果那螺絲不是調整用的???
那是做什麼用途呢??? ...
love4tvespa 發表於 2011-6-23 12:00 PM
定位的呀...在設定蝴蝶關緊時用的......老大...你在想女人厚..
/
http://www.f-autronica.it/imagfun.htm
IAW 011: fuel pump / injectors / ignition failure on banque 1 or 2 (Ferrari GTO)
IAW 16F / 18F: immobilizer (Fiat Cinquecento-Seicento-Punto-Tempra-Palio, Lancia Y-N.Delta)
IAW 1AF: ignition driving failure (Fiat Bravo/a, Marea, Palio, Lancia Delta)
IAW P8: one or more injectors driving failure (Dedra, Delta, Tipo, Coup?
IAW 1AP.40/41/80/81: power supply rel?driving failure - ignition commands failure (106, 206, Saxo, Xsara)
IAW 48P2.xx: ecu power-loss failure (106, 206, 307, 406, Saxo, Xsara, C2, C3, C5 euro3 models)
IAW 6LP.xx: euro4 STmicro-based ecu for french cars (can be programmed with ProG)
IAW 49F: random ignition command failure
IAW 4EM: ignition command failure on 1 or more cylinders (Maserati 3200 GT CF3)
IAW 59F: ignition command failure on 2 cylinders
IAW 5NF: software upgrade (Stilo, Palio)
IAW 5SF: Grande Punto / New Bravo 1400 ecu (software upgrade)
IAW 15M: bike & scooter injection ecu (Ducati, Guzzi, Piaggio, Aprilia)
IAW 5AM: bike injection ecu (cf3 engines Ducati, Guzzi, MVAgusta)
IAW MIU1: meccatronic interface unit, new euro3 maxi scooter injection ecu (Vespa, Beverly, X8, X9, MP3)
IAW 16M: bike injection ecu - multiple driving failures (on MV, Ducati, Guzzi)
IAW 7BM: euro3 bike injection ecu - 8 injectors driving (mounted on MV F4 m.y.10 and Aprila RSV4)
Marelli 8GMF: gasoline euro5 ecu for 1400 MultiAir engines (GDI + valves control)
EFI Euro1: low-cost competition ecu
Marelli IAW 90: competition ecu mounted on Lancia, Fiat and Ferrari classic racing cars ('80s-'90s)
Marelli MF4: competition ecu
Marelli Marvel4: motorbike application on factory 675 Daytona (WSS)
Marelli SDC: Synaptic Damping Control system ecu
/
http://www.f-autronica.it/imagfun.htm
'04 F.Renault V6: MF4 ecu detail
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http://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/main/service/PartsCataloguesDetails.aspx?link=1&table=5259cba3-7a17-4694-855c-7f2bc2ee998d&oc=94ba6ebd-4bbc-4db2-9c67-785bc3532fa4
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怎麼診斷故障馬...原廠之外..
http://mototechdiagnostics.com.au/centurion.php#proeurope
Centurion software for PC - connects Via USB
Features:
View real-time engine data (RPM, throttle position sensor, battery voltage, lamda, etc...)
View and clear Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)
Reset service/maintenance lights and malfunction indicator lights
Idle adjustment and Idle fuel trim adjustment
Reset Throttle Position Sensor (TPS)
Perform active tests (tachometer, injectors, idle speed, etc...)
View System ID
Allows data recording of real-time data
English and metric units for data • Interfaces with Gas Analyzer and Wideband Oxygen Sensor Controllers
Operates in over 5 Languages (English, Spanish, Italian, French, German and Portuguese)
The Centurion Pro Europe (formally known as the VDSTS Pro) is a software tool used to communicate with ALL European Models for maintenance and trouble shooting. The Centurion software runs on a PC/Laptop (Windows XP/Vista) and connects to the ECU via a USB cable.
Supports ALL of the following motorbike manufactures: Adiva, Aprilia, Bimota, Cagiva, Ducati, KVM, Moto-Guzzi, MV-Augusta, Piaggio, Vespa and others with Marelli ECU.
The main features are TPS resets, idle adjustment, maintenance lights and trouble codes. On newer Ducati ECU's the only way to perform some of these is through the Ducati mathesis.
click here for more information
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http://technoresearch.online.fr/EFI-Terminology.htm
Electronic Control Unit (ECU). There are an 8, 16 or 32 bit microprocessor which has a predetermined memory map which is configured to match the engine in terms of valve timing and capacity etc. There are five main input sensors which allow the fuel feed and ignition timing to be adjusted to match engine load and cold starting.
Crankshaft/RPM sensor. This is mounted at the crankshaft pulley and senses 24-2, 32-2, 60-2 or 4 teeth fly wheel on the pulley. The resultant pulses indicate the Top Dead Centre times for the four pistons and allow the computer to know how quickly the crankshaft is turning.
Manifold Air Pressure sensor. The air flow into the cylinders is dependant on how hard the engine is working and so the air pressure (vacuum) in the manifold is an indication of how much fuel (air and petrol mixture) is required. Also the ignition timing is adjusted to suit
Manifold Air Temperature sensor. The mixing of petrol and air varies at different temperatures, so this sensor allows adjustment for ambient temperature.
Camshaft Position sensor. Mounted within the distributor body this lets the computer know when piston number one is at top dead centre of the firing stroke
Water Temperature sensor. Allows adjustment for cold start and cold running.
Stepper Motor. This is a solenoid operated which allows an alternative air flow path when the throttle is closed. The computer opens and closes this throttle to keep the engine running at idle speeds.
Fuel Injectors. The injectors are mounted at the end of the inlet manifold feeds into the cylinder head. They are individually driven in synchronization with the valve timing as determined by the predetermined mapping. The injectors are solenoid valves which open to allow a spray of petrol into the inlet ports, to mix with the air which is drawn in by the intake stroke.
Throttle Position Sensor (TPS). Mounted on the end of the throttle spindle, the ECU (Electronic Control Unit) reads this value to determine the need for extra fuel when accelerating and to cut the fuel supply when the engine is in overrun.
Fuel Pump. Electrically driven, situated near the tank, this supplies fuel under pressure as long as the crankshaft is turning. The pump is switched off after a few seconds if the crankshaft stops turning. The fuel is fed via a filter to pipe (rail) which is the common feed to all injectors.
Ignition Amplifier and Coil. An integrated unit which is driven by pulses from the computer and generates a spark in the normal way. There are one or two amplifier/coil units and each one feeds two cylinders simultaneously (a spark occurs in the exhaust stroke but does not do any harm).
Electrical Supply Relays. The fuel injection system has a separate wiring loom with just one connector to the rest of the car wiring plus a fused connection to the battery and earths. Two relays are used, the first is controlled by a feed from the ignition switch and supplies power to the computer, injectors, and the second relay. The second relay is controlled by the computer and supplies power to the petrol pump, idle by-pass valve and over boost valve (if fitted). The ignition coil and amplifier are supplied by a separate feed from the ignition switch. Another, 3 way connector exists (beside the computer) for connection of the W/MM diagnostic computer.
Diagnostic Information
As with any internal combustion engine, smooth running is dependant upon the three basics, fuel supply, fuel compression and fuel ignition. The Weber/Magneti Marelli system controls the supply and ignition. The comments below are intended as a guide to checking the "electronics" but cannot cover all situations (e.g. timing belt broken, or piston holed).
Poor engine performance. The system will function without the water temperature sensor and the idle by-pass valve, but the engine will not run cleanly. If one injector is not operating it can be traced by removing spark plug leads one by one to note the difference in idling (this presupposes that a spark is being generated at all plugs and that there is sufficient compression in each cylinder).
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fuel pump ....2.5/3.0 bar
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原文出處
http://ericwu5.spaces.live.com/b ... F76598A5!1790.entry
各位老爺夫人，今天我們來淺談一下目前噴射機車外掛電腦的用途與原理。
在四期的車種裡，由於沒有含氧感知器的迴路所以機車的燃油控制只能說是半套，也就是說車廠在試驗室中測量各轉速，負載，油耗與空氣污染值的綜合考量下決定各種情形下的燃油噴射量。但隨著噴嘴，火星塞等各部份零件的老化或使用者的不當改裝，就會產生機車在騎乘一段時間後引擎燃燒效率降低的情況，這樣就無法達到節省燃油，降低廢氣效果，但是有個附加的好處就是改裝比較容易，只要加一個外掛電腦就可以修改噴射量，為什麼呢?因為外掛電腦對噴射的修正量不會因為閉迴路的修正而被原本電腦所抵消。
外掛電腦利用開迴路的控制來對噴油進行調整，一般的修正方法有以下幾種:
一，不管三七二十一，直接加寬供油時間，當噴射壓力一定時，噴的越久，油料越多。
二，將歧管壓力感測器數值增大後再送給原廠電腦，這樣ECU會以為油門開大了。
三，真的計算轉速與參考ECU噴射時間並直接控制噴嘴做調整。
四，達人級控制，參考轉速，車速，油門開度，自己計算供油。
以上這幾種方法都有人做，坊間的產品大多作到第一二種，第三四種的改裝需要高階的設備才能達成，像是馬力機，空燃比計等...
所以以上的外掛電腦優缺點為:
第一種 單純加寬，適用於將引擎汽缸加大的改裝，由於燃燒室變大，所以油料也要增加，但注意進氣岐管也應該一併加大，這樣才能獲得正確的AFR與容積效率。(PS.其實這樣不用掛電腦，只要將噴嘴換多孔的就可以了，因為只是要增加油料而已)，可以把買電腦的錢省下來加油。
第二種 原理也跟第一種一樣，但他是在訊號進入原廠ECU前作手腳，也就是讓ECU以為你的油門開度增加了。這種方式如果設計的好可以跟第一種改裝獲得相同的效果，但如果假訊號的反應比較慢，你會發現當我們回油時車子好像停不下來，而下坡時原本會停止噴射的動作會被取消，所以油耗與騎乘的感覺會怪怪的。
第三種 使用原廠ECU的供油為基礎，按照車主的改裝調整在不同轉數下的燃油增減量，這必須要透過馬力機來加以確認，當然如果您對自己的愛車有特殊的感應，也可以透過實車騎乘的方式來判定。
第四種 先向您敬禮，要達成這個目標除非您在車廠工作，同時也是程式與電路設計師才能完成這個任務，目前這類的商品或試驗品都價格不斐，幾乎可以說是一個完整的供油電腦。一般都是競技用車才會進行這樣的改裝。
市面上商品的選擇建議以汽缸，進氣岐管，外掛電腦來搭配就可以獲得明顯的效益，其實就是把較大的引擎裝進來的意思，簡單一點的說法是把汽缸換大後，增加燃油與空氣，讓引擎在進氣行程時可以吸入最大的空氣體積與最佳的燃油比例，這樣就可以獲得最佳的引擎燃燒效率。電腦的選擇建議您購買在ECU輸出訊號後再修正的外掛式電腦比較好，因為原廠的ECU有很多節省燃油與馬力的綜合考量，像是在下坡時若保持在最低油門，則油料將會暫停噴射節省燃油的消耗等功能，前端的不當設計會使這些功能失效。
當獲得較大的馬力後可以再進行傳動系統的修改，讓扭力與速度獲得改善。
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Master(Multi-valve Advanced Super Torque Engine Range)
Quasar (QUArter liter Smooth Augmented Range)
LEADER (Low Emissions Advanced Engine Range)
ie...“iniezione elettronica”.......
2011/11/28補....
關於一則2009年當時LX/S噴偉新聞...
http://www.motorcycle.com/news/2009-vespa-s-and-lx-get-fuel-injection-88558.html
The iconic scooter manufacturer says the change from carburetors to electronic fuel injection will give the four-stroke air cooled engines of the LX and S more power and torque at lower engine speeds, important for urban riding with frequent stops.
Vespa also cited lower emissions and fuel consumption as added benefits of switching to fuel injection.
The Vespa LX ie. |
The Vespa S ie.
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The 2009 Vespa LX 125 ie and 150 ie (the “ie” stands for “iniezione elettronica”, Italian for “fuel injection”) carries many classic Vespa styling cues such as the round headlight, wide steel leg shield. The seat has been reshaped for a wider and more contoured saddle while the rear view mirrors and mudguard receive new chrome details.
The 2009 Vespa S 125 ie and 150 ie claim roots in the Special 50 and Primavera of the ’70s. The bodywork is sportier than the LX and features a rectangular headlight.
The 125 versions of the S and LX has a claimed crankshaft output of 10.7 hp at 8,250 rpm with 7.08 ft-lb of torque at 6,500 rpm. The 150 versions claim 12.1 hp at 8,000 rpm with a maximum torque of 8.7 ft-lb at 6,250 rpm.
The Vespa LX 125 ie and 150 ie are available in six colors: Vulcano Black, Montebianco White, Cortina Grey, Dragopn Red, Taormina Orange, Midnight Blue and Lime Yellow.
The Vespa S 125 ie and 150 ie are available in four colors: Dragon Red, Lucido Black, Montebianco White and Taormina Orange.
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(以下是網路上談話....)
這邊真是冷清的可以...
報欠在下給噴偉(LX)的空氣心給搞慘了...現在時間都花在摸索LX上..
許久沒弄電噴文了...
而自從此文轉到改裝區....我也少有時間再進修...但料到大家會想搞搞硬如ECU..軟如ECM的提升或Tuning UP什麼的...
我再來鍋New dog old trick...大家忍著點..
也許能啟發點什麼??..
雖然目前本版討論都僅只於初階.....(譬如弄清楚咱們LX/S噴偉是用馬牌的低階MIU系統)....
要看進階可能要請諸位老爺奶奶移駕別區..
大家也都傳言改裝有理造反無罪.....也有巷子內電子達人加個小玩意就四兩破千斤....
像別人傳說舊款"屁壓久"(Piaagio)的電腦程式還可用"任天堂"Gameboy去改裝?.....新款想當然爾不太可能就這麼樣搞!...天底下沒有白吃的午餐...
我覺得花太多工夫去破解MIU的代碼是浪費青春和金錢........
就像摩登偉士網有人說的...與其破解電腦程式不如先改傳動來得快!...
我也覺得是....
(或說直落300的引擎嗎?....同學們....大家不要忘了噴偉身上還有更難搞的防盜晶片(Immobiliser)正掐著噴偉車主的脖子不放喔...等不怕MIU歪掉的你落落看弄好再說...嘿嘿..)
看了大家的回應..我主要想說的是...跟大家一樣想法...已經有更多討論文在下面網紙...請自己挪動一下去觀賞....
http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic55912
正如該網前輩說的...目前綿羊電腦層次確實是低階...也許MIU的晶片真的是Magneti Marelli採購自ST Micro..
(真可惜不是磨拖羅拉...真怕給人發射導彈???..據說CIA專門在網上抓一些關鍵字..你們不要輸入這些字眼....免得~~..)....
譬如只是一些感應...
Throttle position
Lambda sensor
Temperature
RPM
只要剛好夠力...為了成本原廠當然就此打住..
新狗也脫離不了老把戲...
節論....想把電腦怎麼改都行(雖然目前尚待救世主).......最重點還是加大噴油量(進氣大外尤其噴頭也要大)...才是王道...
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入寶山怎能空手而歸?...
新一代偉人看到"ie"字母多半會以為是英文?....
說對也是...說不對也對!..哈.....因為壹大粒車終究是要以一大粒字去不是嗎?...太古的爺們為什麼都悶不坑聲?....
那我告訴你們...
ie是"iniezione elettronica".......別說我沒說給你聽...
新狗搞old trick...廢話還真多...哈哈....
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